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I know there is already a thread concerning the MLPA meetings. But I have a few questions. Please excuse me if my post cause some repetative questions or comments. I think this post will help the many of us who are currently asuming that this matter will be resolved by other active protesters. I personaly dont want to sit on the side lines on this one. #1 What is the likely hood that we wont be able to fish CAT , or SCI ?? #2 Is it realistic that we can make a substantial difference in this MLPA matter? #3 Is there any sort of anglers side of this matter that I can join? The other thread concerning this MLPA mess, if I read correctly, sounds like only a few of us plan to make a appearance at a few of the various meetings. Is this enough to get the job done? How many of our voices are actualy going to be heard? Iam very concerned. I do not want to loose my favorite past time, and my right to fish our local waters. I personally catch and release 95% of my catch, I dont throw trash into the waters, and I always try to teach these practices to the young ones. Pisses me off to think that someone can decide that they dont want me fishing anymore and can do it. I simply am trying to decide what I can do personally to fight for the kill? Also whats going to happen to our sport boat fleets and the fishing industry as a whole? How manny jobs will be lost? And most impotantly what will I do on the [email protected] . Cant we organize the same sort of groups ,and conduct the same sort of mettings for the opposition of these mindless manuevers. We need to make sure we are heard as masses of outrage. What happened to the freedom thats pounded in to our heads, thats we have built this country on. FReedom is what we use to validate ALL these wars and mass killing of forienge relation. IAM SORRY BUT WHEN SOMEONE CLAIMS THEY KNOW EVERTHING ABOUT MARINE LIFE AND THE IMPACTS OF FISHING, WHEN THEY DONT EVEN FISH, MAKES ME WANT TO KICK THIER TEETH IN. REMEMBER I HAVE NEVER EVEN BEEN IN A FIST FIGHT MY WHOLE LIFE. BIG TENTACLES OUT !!!!!!!

This post edited by BIG TENTACLES 06/25/2008
 

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BIG TENTACLES said:
I know there is already a thread concerning the MLPA meetings. But I have a few questions. Please excuse me if my post cause some repetative questions or comments. I think this post will help the many of us who are currently asuming that this matter will be resolved by other active protesters. I personaly dont want to sit on the side lines on this one.

#1 What is the likely hood that we wont be able to fish CAT
, or SCI ??
#2 Is it realistic that we can make a substantial difference
in this MLPA matter?
#3 Is there any sort of anglers side of this matter that I can
join?
The other thread concerning this MLPA mess, if I read correctly, sounds like only a few of us plan to make a appearance at a few of the various meetings. Is this enough to get the job done? How many of our voices are actualy going to be heard?

Iam very concerned. I do not want to loose my favorite past time, and my right to fish our local waters. I personally catch and release 95% of my catch, I dont throw trash into the waters, and I always try to teach these practices to the young ones. Pisses me off to think that someone can decide that they dont want me fishing anymore and can do it.

I simply am trying to decide what I can do personally to fight for the kill? Also whats going to happen to our sport boat fleets and the fishing industry as a whole? How manny jobs will be lost?

And most impotantly what will I do on the [email protected]
.
BIG TENTACLES OUT !!!!
Glad to hear your concerned. I am by no means an expert, though we do have a few experts here on the board.

The first thing I'm going to say is I'm not promoting joining one group or another. I think your best bet is to be as involved as possible and instead of a small monetary donation or support I suggest being personally available and involved.

As for what areas will be closed, there is no answer to that question now. There are many opinions and many options that will be presented. My assumption is that if its hard bottom and holds fish, it'll be on the chopping block. Also any areas that could be considered spawning areas are also likely to be debated.

Your second question is one I've been asked many times in the last few weeks. I don't know that anyone can answer it with any level of confidence. I look at it this way, if I'm going to lose my right to fish areas in any capacity whether or not I'm going to "substantially" effect the process or not I have to do what I can to make my belief as a stakeholder in this known.

There is a lot of scepticism from anglers because the last time we went around on the issue of closures in local waters (Channel Islands) from what I hear we got the shaft. The whole process was not very transparent and people felt as if we'd been lead to the slaughter.

Having said all that, the most important thing anyone individual can do is to inform themselves. The workshops that are upcoming in my opinion are going to be an excellent format for uninformed concerned anglers to get their start. You will have the opportunity to talk to other stakeholders, to people within DFG, and to the groups that will be fighting for our rights and in some cases for closures.

We need to understand and support a balanced approach to the final plan is our best strategy. There will be closures, they will be some famous spots and someones favorite spot or spots. The only way that'll be contested is if someone can stand up and speak passionately and truthfully to the commission. We need to do all we can in the next few years to show we have the best interest of the marine environment in mind and are willing to do what is scientifically proven to help that end.

Please feel free to keep this an open conversation. By no means is my word or for that matter anyone who will respond, the end all be all of what will happen. No one person can do this, it will take a barrage of informed concerned stakeholders to move this process. Listen to everyone and learn what you can, make your own choices and don't fall into the "party" line. As a megalith we are easily portrayed as uncaring. As individual fathers, sons, business owners, outdoorsman, watermen and most importantly citizens of California we have a valid and constitutional right to be heard.
 

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1. go to the MLPA meeting nearest to you with a WRITTEN DOWN list of your questions. Pose them to EVERYONE at the various booths...starting with the "welcome" table.
2. Join RFA and UA.
3. don't forget to perform #1.
 

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Want a Preview of What Catalina May Look Like?

If you want to get an idea of what the reserves at just Catalina will look like by the end of 2009, take a look at this 2006 proposal. It will not be the final product and the final product, the Preferred Alternative that will be made by MLPA Blue Ribbon Committee, or rather by the RLF staff, the Packard front "charity", may be even be more draconian. But it tells you plans for Catalina are being drawn up now by various groups even before the MLPA regional stakeholder group has been chosen to hammer out various reserve proposals from Pt. Conception to the Mexican border. There will be various proposals for the South that must pass muster with the Science Committee and then the Preferred Alternative will be hammered out of them for the F&G Commission to adopt or modify. Note that the authors are at Scripps so you can bet they are already whipping up a whopper reserve at the La Jolla Kelp and Canyon. Read it if you like, but be sure to scroll to the very last page which has the Reserve Map. Reading the whole enchilada will at least introduce you to some of the language and terminology that is used in the MLPA, and the justifications for reserves. http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1181&context=sio

This post edited by freddie 06/26/2008
 

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re: Want a Preview of What Catalina May Look Like?

Is it true that farnsworth bank is closed to fishing? And is deep hole closed too(they call it Big Sycamore Canyon)?? I dont follow Cat closely, but I was reading through the mountain of MLPA's that went into effect 2007. For some reason I am having a hard time believing this [email protected]#$! It is getting WAY out of hand. :td:

I have to check some of my waypoints due to the footprint MLPA. From what I can see on their POS map they provide some of my spots are within casting distance of the new MLPA! :td: :

Chris
 

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re: Want a Preview of What Catalina May Look Like?

Freddie,

The proposed MLPA's for Cat are un fn real! I guess they took sat pics and counted boats! Of course the best fishing holes are all on the chopping block.

The sad part for me is I have never fished Cat, and if these A-holes get their way I never will! :td: :z

Thanks for the link. Even though it will be a very hard pill to swallow! :td: :z


Chris
 

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kick my teeth in also!

I have fished here in Southern California for 30 years until 2000 when the sportfishing community declared war against the CI reserves. In the last 25 years i have logged over 90,000nm in OUR waters and i have seen too much, been too intimate with our fragile ocean environment to be against any proposed conservation measure. The MLPA's are the single most beneficial conservation measure ever proposed on BEHALF of our shared waters and as such, should be embraced by anyone who claims a stake in the future of sportfishing.

I suggest that you abandon your threats of violence and take a serious look at the actual impact that the CI reserves have had on your recreation and associated business during the last 5 years. I think you will find that your threat of violence is entirely UNNECESSARY and nothing but a pathetic attempt to ingratiate yourself with your fellow fishermen. If you really think that using those kind of threats is going to further your cause, you BECOME the problem.


i guarantee you that when this process is over and there are reserves in the So Cal bight, everyone will deal with it just like they do with the CI reserves---

NO BIG DEAL!
 

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re: kick my teeth in also!

Who made threats of violence in this post?

Conservation is fine but the California government is using the ole reasoning of because we say so. Thats not how the wording of the process reads. We need target points based on science, we need a mechanism and financing for reviewing these reserves. The way governing and limiting access has always worked is they take it away little by little saying that they'll give it back when its fixed...well what is fixed?

I appreciate your take and am not saying that your stance doesn't have validity but I'm not a roll over for the government kind of guy. We've all seen the results of some of the governments best laid plans.
 

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re: kick my teeth in also!

Brad said:
I have fished here in Southern California for 30 years until 2000 when the sportfishing community declared war against the CI reserves. In the last 25 years i have logged over 90,000nm in OUR waters and i have seen too much, been too intimate with our fragile ocean environment to be against any proposed conservation measure. The MLPA's are the single most beneficial conservation measure ever proposed on BEHALF of our shared waters and as such, should be embraced by anyone who claims a stake in the future of sportfishing.

I suggest that you abandon your threats of violence and take a serious look at the actual impact that the CI reserves have had on your recreation and associated business during the last 5 years. I think you will find that your threat of violence is entirely UNNECESSARY and nothing but a pathetic attempt to ingratiate yourself with your fellow fishermen. If you really think that using those kind of threats is going to further your cause, you BECOME the problem.


i guarantee you that when this process is over and there are reserves in the So Cal bight, everyone will deal with it just like they do with the CI reserves---

NO BIG DEAL!
Who were you talking to?I wish the posts were still numbered.
 

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re: Want a Preview of What Catalina May Look Like?

Chris - Farnsworth and Deep Hole are still open. These two areas are part of the MLPA southern region that will be considered next. Given there importance of fishing areas, the various sportfishing organizations will obviously advocate that they remain open to fishing. However, always good to have personal viewpoints heard by the various powers that be. Important thing as Freddie stated is to get educated as much as you can on.

The footprint reef is closed to fishing as part of the combined state and federal marine reserve network within the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary.
 

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re: Want a Preview of What Catalina May Look Like?

MadDog said:
Chris - Farnsworth and Deep Hole are still open. These two areas are part of the MLPA southern region that will be considered next. Given there importance of fishing areas, the various sportfishing organizations will obviously advocate that they remain open to fishing. However, always good to have personal viewpoints heard by the various powers that be. Important thing as Freddie stated is to get educated as much as you can on.

The footprint reef is closed to fishing as part of the combined state and federal marine reserve network within the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary.

Thanks for the headsup. I know much more about the CI's than the LA area. I found that 2 of my waypoints are a good cast from the footprint MLPA. I just wonder if that is toooo close. Being that close could get you in trouble if the enforcing officer is in a bad mood! [email protected]* :\

Does anyone know where to find an MLPA map on the DFG website ? The only ones I find are individual MLPA maps and the quality is crap.
They used to have a pretty good map you could print of the CI's. Now a days I feel like a mushroom. Kept in the dark and fed sh!t!!!!!
If they are going to cut us off at least they can give us the info so we dont bend the rules on accident! @(


Chris
 

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re: Want a Preview of What Catalina May Look Like?

Does anyone know how they enforce the MLPA's? Meaning how close can you be fishing to them before you get a ticket? I am guessing I might be better off not fishing my holes right next to the footprint MLPA. :? Since there is no landmarks to go by and it is all up to electronics to find you in violation being 100-200 feet from the MLPA sounds kind of riske' to me. What say you guys????


Chris
 

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Here is what I find under existing MLPA's.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mlpa/pdfs/revisedmp0108i.pdf

It shows deep hole and farnsworth bank. :? This is getting way out of hand. Are they existing proposed MLPA's or what??? Does anyone know for sure here? Or can anyone provide a link that says otherwise. From what I read here on my link these area are existing MLPA's...

Like I said before I wish they had a regional map that showed in detail all MLPA's of any one given region. It is hard to figure out what is true and what is just noise IMO!


Chris
 

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re: Want a Preview of What Catalina May Look Like?

ChannelIslands said:
Does anyone know how they enforce the MLPA's? Meaning how close can you be fishing to them before you get a ticket? I am guessing I might be better off not fishing my holes right next to the footprint MLPA. :? Since there is no landmarks to go by and it is all up to electronics to find you in violation being 100-200 feet from the MLPA sounds kind of riske' to me. What say you guys????


Chris
The coast guard in CIH was outfitted with new electronics two years ago. They can pinpoint a boat at any location at any of the islands up here...FROM THEIR CIH OFFICE
 

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CI, MPA means Marine Protected Area. There are many kinds with different regulations. We have a ton of MPAs that existed before MLPA was passed. The MLPA was thought to be a law to assess existing MPAs, some that banned fishing, some that banned just commercial fishing, etc., and put them into a network or abolish some and add some new MPAs. It was totally hijacked by anti-fishing elements and backed by the Governator. It's focus now is on creating as many no-take reserves as possible without totally destroying recreational and commercial fishing. Partial destruction is the goal. The Farnsworth is in a form of MPA called the Farnsworth Conservation Area. By naming it a Conservation Area, the DF&G is empowered to put into effect measures to protect it. The focus of the Conservation Area right now is to protect the Purple Hydrocoral which grows there and is damaged everytime an anchor is dropped by fishing boats, and by the boats of take and no-take divers. Fishing is not banned there at THIS TIME. Some of the conscientious divers have seen the damage in the area most dived and want it protected by banning anchoring. They want permanent buoys put there for anchoring, a real iffy question because the weather at the Farnworth would probably destroy any of these very expensive buoys, heavily anchored to the bottom. Other divers hope when the MLPA gets to Catalina, the Farnsworth will be converted to a no-take marine reserve, or a conservation area that bans fishing but continues to allow divers to smash corals with anchors. Therefore, expect a fight not only between fishermen and divers at the MLPA over the fate of the Farnsworth, but between diver groups - those that want anchoring allowed and those who don't. So you need to understand the various categories of MPAs as the MLPA invades SoCal: 1. no-take reserves 2. conservation areas, that can allow certain fishing, or certain gear, or just rec and no commercial, or certain commercial and no rec fishing. That is part of the battle during the MLPA process. If you notice in the plan I posted, those Scripps guys want the Farnsworth to be fished but with limitations on commercial only. Finally there is the MPA called a state marine park, and these allow only rec fishing, playgrounds for us, while we are banned from the "hotspots", the most productive fishing areas where boats tend to congregate. So just because something is called a MPA doesn't mean it bans fishing. The only kind that bans take of any kind in any way is a State Marine Reserve. And those still allow divers in big charter dive boats to anchor and rip out kelp and substrate because they are such good, wonderful, sensitive, camera toting lovers of nature.

This post edited by freddie 06/30/2008
 

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Freddie,

Thanks for the great response. I am aware of the CI's regs yet very weak on cat. I have some reading to do thats for sure. @(

Here is what they provide for the CI's. Is there one like it about cat? My maps of cat show no protected areas at all.

http://www.nps.gov/chis/planyourvisit/upload/CHIS%20MPA%202007.pdf







Chris
 

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re: Want a Preview of What Catalina May Look Like?

Wils said:
The coast guard in CIH was outfitted with new electronics two years ago. They can pinpoint a boat at any location at any of the islands up here...FROM THEIR CIH OFFICE
Maybe my spots are a little too close given that info. :z One change in current or wind and your in deep @#$&! 8*


Chris
 

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There are just a few small ones at Cat at present, like the Wrigley research reserve, and Farnsworth Conservation Area, which at present is meaningless. There really isn't much. But what is proposed is going to be a lot, so you don't have to worry about fishing at Cat until the MLPA South process is completed and that won't happen til the end of 2009 or beginning of 2010 at the earliest. Then you will need to have charts with lat/lon of reserves and know the rules for any conservation areas.

In that process, get ready to give up more along the Coast from Magu down to Pt. Dume. Probably you can kiss goodbye to the Leo Carrillo (Deep Hole) in a no-take reserve, and the rich in Malibu want as many reserves as possible to empty their non-inspected septic tanks into.
 
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