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859 Posts
I ran across this co. by accident. Anyone know anything about them?
http://www.marinedieselusa.com/marine-engine-company.html
http://www.marinedieselusa.com/marine-engine-company.html
New Diesel engine co.
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Joined
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168 Posts
>I ran across this co. by accident. Anyone know anything
>about them?
>
>http://www.marinedieselusa.com/marine-engine-company.html
Ive seen them as far as what I have been researching for my repower (though I am going with the Volvo) They seem to use the same 6.5l block and than just bore it to get the different power levels.
>about them?
>
>http://www.marinedieselusa.com/marine-engine-company.html
Ive seen them as far as what I have been researching for my repower (though I am going with the Volvo) They seem to use the same 6.5l block and than just bore it to get the different power levels.
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859 Posts
So, is this the same engine as the old Marine Power 300 hp "Beast" based on the 6.5 litre block?
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168 Posts
>So, is this the same engine as the old Marine Power 300 hp
>"Beast" based on the 6.5 litre block?
That I personally wouldnt know... I just know that they have a small bore (barracuda I think) than you move up to a bigger stroke, than you move to a SC or turbo for the biggest one at 475 or what have you.
>"Beast" based on the 6.5 litre block?
That I personally wouldnt know... I just know that they have a small bore (barracuda I think) than you move up to a bigger stroke, than you move to a SC or turbo for the biggest one at 475 or what have you.
From their site: sounds interesting...
One reason the public confuses the Optimizer 6500 engine with that of the earlier GM 6.2L and 6.5L is that although not in anyway formally tied to General Motors, AM General produces the Humvee and Hummer vehicles as a supplier to General Motors. Having produced these vehicles in previous years as well, AM General was using the GM produced 6.2L and 6.5L engines during that time. When General Motors decided to sell the engine rights to the GM 6.5L engine family, AM General quickly moved on securing the overall engine requirements, however decided to make major product design and durability improvements by introducing the Optimizer 6500 in place of the earlier GM 6.5L models. Since most of the public is familiar with the Humvee/ Hummer and the fact that several 100,000 of these vehicles have been produced with the earlier GM 6.2L & 6.5L engines, they automatically assume the current 6.5L engine offering to be the same GM 6.5L.
Another common mis-conception is that the MarineDiesel product line being based on a 6.5L engine design (Optimizer 6500) is therefore comparable to the engine offerings of our competitors. The truth is that MarineDiesel never produced any marine engines based on the GM 6.2L or 6.5L engine. MarineDieselGÇÖs competition cannot make this claim and therefore many of the issues customers relate to the competition are based on products produced and sold using the GM engines.
If someone claims the MarineDiesel is built on a GM engine, a Detroit diesel engine, the same GM engine in thats been in the Hummers for years, that AM General is part of or owned by General Motors, that the MarineDiesel can be compared against competitive 6.5L based products, etc, you can be sure that the source of this information is out of date and not correct.
The AM General Corporation is best known for manufacturing the Hummer, and military Humvee vehicle product lines. The Optimizer 6500 is the same engine currently produced not only for various pleasure and commercial applications, but also for the military Hummer vehicles. To date more than 50,000 of the latest design Optimizer 6500 engines have been produced and sold, yielding some of the industries lowest warranty service claim rates. The base engine is produced by AM GeneralGÇÖs General Engine Products division at their state of the art Franklin Ohio plant, adhering to extremely stringent QS 9000 certification guidelines. Currently, AM General produces the High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV pronounced HUMVEE -«) and the HUMMER-«. In addition, General Engine Products Inc. (GEP), a wholly owned subsidiary of AM General Corporation, produces OEM 6.5litre diesel engines, both naturally aspirated and turbo-charged, used in military, automotive, marine and various other industrial and commercial applications.
One reason the public confuses the Optimizer 6500 engine with that of the earlier GM 6.2L and 6.5L is that although not in anyway formally tied to General Motors, AM General produces the Humvee and Hummer vehicles as a supplier to General Motors. Having produced these vehicles in previous years as well, AM General was using the GM produced 6.2L and 6.5L engines during that time. When General Motors decided to sell the engine rights to the GM 6.5L engine family, AM General quickly moved on securing the overall engine requirements, however decided to make major product design and durability improvements by introducing the Optimizer 6500 in place of the earlier GM 6.5L models. Since most of the public is familiar with the Humvee/ Hummer and the fact that several 100,000 of these vehicles have been produced with the earlier GM 6.2L & 6.5L engines, they automatically assume the current 6.5L engine offering to be the same GM 6.5L.
Another common mis-conception is that the MarineDiesel product line being based on a 6.5L engine design (Optimizer 6500) is therefore comparable to the engine offerings of our competitors. The truth is that MarineDiesel never produced any marine engines based on the GM 6.2L or 6.5L engine. MarineDieselGÇÖs competition cannot make this claim and therefore many of the issues customers relate to the competition are based on products produced and sold using the GM engines.
If someone claims the MarineDiesel is built on a GM engine, a Detroit diesel engine, the same GM engine in thats been in the Hummers for years, that AM General is part of or owned by General Motors, that the MarineDiesel can be compared against competitive 6.5L based products, etc, you can be sure that the source of this information is out of date and not correct.
The AM General Corporation is best known for manufacturing the Hummer, and military Humvee vehicle product lines. The Optimizer 6500 is the same engine currently produced not only for various pleasure and commercial applications, but also for the military Hummer vehicles. To date more than 50,000 of the latest design Optimizer 6500 engines have been produced and sold, yielding some of the industries lowest warranty service claim rates. The base engine is produced by AM GeneralGÇÖs General Engine Products division at their state of the art Franklin Ohio plant, adhering to extremely stringent QS 9000 certification guidelines. Currently, AM General produces the High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV pronounced HUMVEE -«) and the HUMMER-«. In addition, General Engine Products Inc. (GEP), a wholly owned subsidiary of AM General Corporation, produces OEM 6.5litre diesel engines, both naturally aspirated and turbo-charged, used in military, automotive, marine and various other industrial and commercial applications.
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2,347 Posts
Thanks for bringing me up to date Dave. The base AMG 6.5 is 160 HP, the version the army gets is 190 HP. They looked to governed to 3200 RPM @ 205 HP and the AMG's spec say the marine version is lower compression. Below is some other info from AMG's website @ http://www.amgeneral.com/vehicles_gep_productinfo.php/amSid/53d85bcea5a8ae182d2ebb154f259a13
Product Information
YouGÇÖll find the OPTIMIZER 6500Gäó in many applications such as marine, military and commercial. Whatever the requirement, the OPTIMIZER 6500 can be tailored to meet most applications.
Marine
The naturally aspirated version of the OPTIMIZER 6500 is the economical choice for marine applications. This durable engine produces 165 hp at 3500 rpm and is the base engine used in both the turbo and super-charged versions.
The turbo-charged OPTIMIZER 6500 is a right choice for those who desi greater performance. It produces up to 300 hp at 3600 rpm and is a virtual GÇ£drop-inGÇ¥ replacement for most gasoline V8s.
A super-charged OPTIMIZER 6500 is the perfect answer for those who demand the ultimate in power. This top-performing diesel engine provides better fuel economy than most GÇ£big blockGÇ¥ gasoline V8s, while producing more than 300 hp at 3500 rpm.
Military
The military-focused OPTIMIZER 6500 is a reliable and durable engine both for current production HMMWVs in both naturally aspirated and turbo-charged versions and as a replacement for older HMMWVs. Since 2000, the OPTIMIZER 6500 has replaced the General Motors diesel engine used originally in HMMWVs. TodayGÇÖs engine optimizes the torque to 385 lb-ft at 1800 rpm, and to 190 hp at 3400 rpm in a 756 lb. engine, yielding one of the best horsepower to weight ratios on the market.
Commercial
The OPTIMIZER 6500 turbo-charged diesel is the power plant for the famous HUMMER H1-«, the benchmark vehicle for off-road capability. It is also used to power postal vehicles, transit buses, delivery vans, box vans, motor homes, industrial generators, compressors and medium-sized construction equipment.
The OPTIMIZER 6500 is a GÇ£drop-inGÇ¥ replacement for many V8 and V6 applications that meets current federal, California and CFF emission requirments.
Engine Specifications
Type: 6.5L V8 Turbo or
Naturally Aspirated (N.A.) Diesel
Displacement: 6468 cc
Compression Ratio: 20.2:1 & 18:1 (Marine)
Valve Configuration: Overhead
Valve Lifters: Hydraulic Roller
Firing Order: 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3
Bore x Stroke: 103 X 97.03mm
Fuel System: Indirect Electronic or
Mechanical Fuel Injection Turbo or
Naturally Aspirated
Horsepower: 205/190 @ 3200 rpm-T
160/170 @ 3200 rpm-N.A.
Torque: 440/385 @ 1800 rpm-T
290 @ 1800 rpm-N.A.
Max Governed Engine Speed: 3200 rpm
Emissions Control: Positive Crankcase Ventilation, Catalyst
Materials
Block: Grey Iron/Molybdenum (Nov. 2001)
Cylinder Head: Grey Iron with high chrome
Intake Manifold: Cast Aluminum
Exhaust Manifold: Cast Nodular Iron
Main Bearing Caps: Cast Nodular Iron
Crankshaft: Cast Nodular Iron
Camshaft: Forged Carbonized Steel
Connecting Rods: Forged Steel
Product Information
YouGÇÖll find the OPTIMIZER 6500Gäó in many applications such as marine, military and commercial. Whatever the requirement, the OPTIMIZER 6500 can be tailored to meet most applications.
Marine
The naturally aspirated version of the OPTIMIZER 6500 is the economical choice for marine applications. This durable engine produces 165 hp at 3500 rpm and is the base engine used in both the turbo and super-charged versions.
The turbo-charged OPTIMIZER 6500 is a right choice for those who desi greater performance. It produces up to 300 hp at 3600 rpm and is a virtual GÇ£drop-inGÇ¥ replacement for most gasoline V8s.
A super-charged OPTIMIZER 6500 is the perfect answer for those who demand the ultimate in power. This top-performing diesel engine provides better fuel economy than most GÇ£big blockGÇ¥ gasoline V8s, while producing more than 300 hp at 3500 rpm.
Military
The military-focused OPTIMIZER 6500 is a reliable and durable engine both for current production HMMWVs in both naturally aspirated and turbo-charged versions and as a replacement for older HMMWVs. Since 2000, the OPTIMIZER 6500 has replaced the General Motors diesel engine used originally in HMMWVs. TodayGÇÖs engine optimizes the torque to 385 lb-ft at 1800 rpm, and to 190 hp at 3400 rpm in a 756 lb. engine, yielding one of the best horsepower to weight ratios on the market.
Commercial
The OPTIMIZER 6500 turbo-charged diesel is the power plant for the famous HUMMER H1-«, the benchmark vehicle for off-road capability. It is also used to power postal vehicles, transit buses, delivery vans, box vans, motor homes, industrial generators, compressors and medium-sized construction equipment.
The OPTIMIZER 6500 is a GÇ£drop-inGÇ¥ replacement for many V8 and V6 applications that meets current federal, California and CFF emission requirments.
Engine Specifications
Type: 6.5L V8 Turbo or
Naturally Aspirated (N.A.) Diesel
Displacement: 6468 cc
Compression Ratio: 20.2:1 & 18:1 (Marine)
Valve Configuration: Overhead
Valve Lifters: Hydraulic Roller
Firing Order: 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3
Bore x Stroke: 103 X 97.03mm
Fuel System: Indirect Electronic or
Mechanical Fuel Injection Turbo or
Naturally Aspirated
Horsepower: 205/190 @ 3200 rpm-T
160/170 @ 3200 rpm-N.A.
Torque: 440/385 @ 1800 rpm-T
290 @ 1800 rpm-N.A.
Max Governed Engine Speed: 3200 rpm
Emissions Control: Positive Crankcase Ventilation, Catalyst
Materials
Block: Grey Iron/Molybdenum (Nov. 2001)
Cylinder Head: Grey Iron with high chrome
Intake Manifold: Cast Aluminum
Exhaust Manifold: Cast Nodular Iron
Main Bearing Caps: Cast Nodular Iron
Crankshaft: Cast Nodular Iron
Camshaft: Forged Carbonized Steel
Connecting Rods: Forged Steel
Regardless of whether this engine is applicable to your boat or ?, none of this matters as of Jan 1, 2006-- these engines and all others (including the popular Cummins B and C mechanical line-up, most all of the current Yanmars, CATs and Volvo's) that do not have EPA Tier 2 certification will be history................From past expeience and having a good understanding of what is involved to obtain Tier 2 certification for a maine engine, I do not see this happening for this companies engines.. From Jan 1, 2006 forward, all the popular engines as we currently know them will change drastically or be gone. If you are shopping new, better hurry if you want an old stand-by mechanical diesel like a Yanmar 4LH, Cummins 6BT/BTA or a Volvo 41P.............
Tony
Seaboard Marine -- [email protected]
http://www.SBMar.com "Drop in for a visit"
Tony
Seaboard Marine -- [email protected]
http://www.SBMar.com "Drop in for a visit"
Well, there you have it... Another expert acting as judge, jury and executioner. As an employee of MarineDiesel I can tell you our engines will be around for a long time. And "yes" we will be compliant. If you have any questions and want straight answers go to our web site at www.marinedieselusa.com ask away. I answer most questions in 24-48 hours.
Regards
Joe L
MarineDiesel-USA
Regards
Joe L
MarineDiesel-USA
Joined
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367 Posts
Years ago I had a Chevy pickup with a 6.2 diesel. It was a very good engine. It was not a converted gas engine like the 5.7 Olds. The injection pump went bad right at the time I picked up a used Dodge/Cummins. I had a different boat at that time that had a Mercruiser stern drive. I saw the opportunity to put the 6.2 in the boat. I yanked the engine & sold the rest of the truck. The only problem with the fit is the boat didn't have a big block v8, so even though the bell housing lined up, the arbor was the wrong size. Right about that time, I bought my current boat (Whaler). No more need for the old boat, so I sold it & sold the 6.2. There is a part of me that wishes I had my old boat long enough to finish the conversion. I think it would have run quite well. I was planning to make my own manifolding & dry exhaust. It would have been a really cheap diesel conversion. I don't know how the professionally rigged diesels compare to the 6.2, but I had high hopes for mine at the time. Funny thing too about these GM engines, I had a 6.2 Suburban before the truck & the guy I sold it to shipped it to Germany. He said they were popular there. Imagine that.
Emission Compliance
Joe L.,
Judge Jury and Executioner?
Very interesting to say the least--- I have sent your company not less than 2 requests for information concerning your engines and whether they have compliance-----ZERO response-- Would you care to respond formally with current info regarding Tier 2 compliance?? My requests were quite legit as we do have a need for V-8 diesels from time to time, but without certified emissions and the EPA Technical files that are requirements for us to provide, they are not of use in our workGǪGǪGǪGǪ
Tony
Seaboard Marine -- [email protected]
http://www.SBMar.com "Drop in for a visit"
Joe L.,
Judge Jury and Executioner?
Very interesting to say the least--- I have sent your company not less than 2 requests for information concerning your engines and whether they have compliance-----ZERO response-- Would you care to respond formally with current info regarding Tier 2 compliance?? My requests were quite legit as we do have a need for V-8 diesels from time to time, but without certified emissions and the EPA Technical files that are requirements for us to provide, they are not of use in our workGǪGǪGǪGǪ
Tony
Seaboard Marine -- [email protected]
http://www.SBMar.com "Drop in for a visit"
RE: Emission Compliance
Not to muddy the waters, but the promotional statements made on the website were clearly written by by someone with no real clue about the technical differences between gas and diesel engines. This is more than enough to make me suspect anything else they have to say.
"The main thing to consider when repowering from gas to diesel is that the torque rating is what has to be compared rather than the horsepower"
NO.
Horsepower is horsepower, and that is what matters the most. If your boat needed 300 horsepower from a gas engine to do 25 kts it will need at least 300 horsepower from a diesel engine to do 25 kts, and probably a little more because the diesel engine is probably heavier than the gas engine.
Big_E
Not to muddy the waters, but the promotional statements made on the website were clearly written by by someone with no real clue about the technical differences between gas and diesel engines. This is more than enough to make me suspect anything else they have to say.
"The main thing to consider when repowering from gas to diesel is that the torque rating is what has to be compared rather than the horsepower"
NO.
Horsepower is horsepower, and that is what matters the most. If your boat needed 300 horsepower from a gas engine to do 25 kts it will need at least 300 horsepower from a diesel engine to do 25 kts, and probably a little more because the diesel engine is probably heavier than the gas engine.
Big_E
Joined
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859 Posts
RE: Emission Compliance
You are right, the same hp in gas and diesel should have similar top speeds. But with diesel, max cruise is a higher % of max rpm than gas, so a smaller hp diesel will cruise the same as a higher hp gas. Plus, diesel usually reaches max torque at lower rpm and the curve is more flat, so it has a bigger range of rpms where it does it's best work. For big heavy boats, diesel is the better option.
You are right, the same hp in gas and diesel should have similar top speeds. But with diesel, max cruise is a higher % of max rpm than gas, so a smaller hp diesel will cruise the same as a higher hp gas. Plus, diesel usually reaches max torque at lower rpm and the curve is more flat, so it has a bigger range of rpms where it does it's best work. For big heavy boats, diesel is the better option.
RE: Emission Compliance
In response to whether or not MarineDiesel will be certified for 2006, please note the following. The tier 2 certification applies to both commercial and pleasure however it is very complicated and I suspect those not in the engine manufacturing part of the business don't know all of the in's and out's. The 2006 US regulation only relates to commercial engines for our displacement, however 2006 EU is pleasure and commercial.
Although I have spoken with the party questioning our compliance issues in the past, and believe them to be very knowledgeable in their field this may be an issue that they were not familiar with.
There are a lot of diesel engine manufacturers out there claiming that their product is better than the others. In many boat applications other brands are better suited than us for the task at hand. Our key markets are new powerboats from 20-40' and the replacement of gas engines in the repower market. In that role we are considered by many to be the best suited.
The 6.5L engine used by MarineDiesel is a vastly different motor than those used in the marine & automotive industry just 5 years ago. We spend a vast ammount of our time educating customers about these improvements. The publishing of incorrect information on the internet and other medias makes our job all the more difficult. We invite everyone to with questions or comments to let us know what's on their mind.
For more information check us out at: www.marinedieselusa.com
or contact me at [email protected]
Regards
Joe L
In response to whether or not MarineDiesel will be certified for 2006, please note the following. The tier 2 certification applies to both commercial and pleasure however it is very complicated and I suspect those not in the engine manufacturing part of the business don't know all of the in's and out's. The 2006 US regulation only relates to commercial engines for our displacement, however 2006 EU is pleasure and commercial.
Although I have spoken with the party questioning our compliance issues in the past, and believe them to be very knowledgeable in their field this may be an issue that they were not familiar with.
There are a lot of diesel engine manufacturers out there claiming that their product is better than the others. In many boat applications other brands are better suited than us for the task at hand. Our key markets are new powerboats from 20-40' and the replacement of gas engines in the repower market. In that role we are considered by many to be the best suited.
The 6.5L engine used by MarineDiesel is a vastly different motor than those used in the marine & automotive industry just 5 years ago. We spend a vast ammount of our time educating customers about these improvements. The publishing of incorrect information on the internet and other medias makes our job all the more difficult. We invite everyone to with questions or comments to let us know what's on their mind.
For more information check us out at: www.marinedieselusa.com
or contact me at [email protected]
Regards
Joe L
RE: Emission Compliance
>You are right, the same hp in gas and diesel should have
>similar top speeds. But with diesel, max cruise is a higher %
>of max rpm than gas, so a smaller hp diesel will cruise the
>same as a higher hp gas. Plus, diesel usually reaches max
>torque at lower rpm and the curve is more flat, so it has a
>bigger range of rpms where it does it's best work. For big
>heavy boats, diesel is the better option.
I agree completely. I just get a little tired of hearing "torque matters, not horsepower", "diesel horsepower and gas horsepower are different", etc.
Big_E
>You are right, the same hp in gas and diesel should have
>similar top speeds. But with diesel, max cruise is a higher %
>of max rpm than gas, so a smaller hp diesel will cruise the
>same as a higher hp gas. Plus, diesel usually reaches max
>torque at lower rpm and the curve is more flat, so it has a
>bigger range of rpms where it does it's best work. For big
>heavy boats, diesel is the better option.
I agree completely. I just get a little tired of hearing "torque matters, not horsepower", "diesel horsepower and gas horsepower are different", etc.
Big_E
Torque vs. HP
Statements made regarding having to us a 300 Hp diesel to replace a 300 Hp gas are only PARTLY correct. Otherwise it would be safe to say that all 300 Hp diesels are created equal and you could expect the same results from a Cummins as you could from a Steyer. That couldn't be further from reality. Like gas engines, all diesel engines are not created equal.
There are many diesel engines available in the 4.0 to 7.0L size that produce 300-hp. Torque ratings range from around 350 ft-lb. to over 600. Several of these engines would NOT be a good replacement for a similar HP gas engine in a certain type of boat.
As for our web site not being written by a qualified engineer. Lets not throw stones. If you want to call tomorrow, we can discuss what you think is more appropriate.
Statements made regarding having to us a 300 Hp diesel to replace a 300 Hp gas are only PARTLY correct. Otherwise it would be safe to say that all 300 Hp diesels are created equal and you could expect the same results from a Cummins as you could from a Steyer. That couldn't be further from reality. Like gas engines, all diesel engines are not created equal.
There are many diesel engines available in the 4.0 to 7.0L size that produce 300-hp. Torque ratings range from around 350 ft-lb. to over 600. Several of these engines would NOT be a good replacement for a similar HP gas engine in a certain type of boat.
As for our web site not being written by a qualified engineer. Lets not throw stones. If you want to call tomorrow, we can discuss what you think is more appropriate.
MD Technical data on web site
It sadly appears that many of us would rather just sit back and throw stones than to be honestly objective. At MarineDiesel we are happy to answer any and all questions relating to our products. I find it counter productive to log on to this site every day only to find people that know our business better than we do or are not even capable of navigating thru a web site to find the info that's CLEARLY available for all to see. To sit at your desk and blindly take pot shots at us or any other manufacturer and then hide behind your screen neme is inmature and I will not play this game.
To the rest of you, I welcome your questions and comments. Please visit us at www.marinedieselusa.com
Email us at [email protected]
All the best
Joe Lewis
Sales Manager MD-USA
It sadly appears that many of us would rather just sit back and throw stones than to be honestly objective. At MarineDiesel we are happy to answer any and all questions relating to our products. I find it counter productive to log on to this site every day only to find people that know our business better than we do or are not even capable of navigating thru a web site to find the info that's CLEARLY available for all to see. To sit at your desk and blindly take pot shots at us or any other manufacturer and then hide behind your screen neme is inmature and I will not play this game.
To the rest of you, I welcome your questions and comments. Please visit us at www.marinedieselusa.com
Email us at [email protected]
All the best
Joe Lewis
Sales Manager MD-USA
RE: MD Technical data on web site
Joe L,
I am not taking shots at you or your company if your post refers to me....But, I will take exception to your statement about who or what diesel engines in this general class/size range need to meet EPA TIER 2 certifications for pleasure/commercial marine use starting Jan 1 2006--------------Sadly, you are wrong, VERY WRONG, and if I were a service or sales manager for a company like yours, I would get educated quick, VERY QUICK..
If you would like the info you need to know concerning EPA regs that will take effect Jan 1 concerning your engines and all of the other new diesel engines out there including what we sell, drop me a note off the site and I will gladly send you the information regarding what you should already know........................Tony
Seaboard Marine -- [email protected]
http://www.SBMar.com "Drop in for a visit"
Joe L,
I am not taking shots at you or your company if your post refers to me....But, I will take exception to your statement about who or what diesel engines in this general class/size range need to meet EPA TIER 2 certifications for pleasure/commercial marine use starting Jan 1 2006--------------Sadly, you are wrong, VERY WRONG, and if I were a service or sales manager for a company like yours, I would get educated quick, VERY QUICK..
If you would like the info you need to know concerning EPA regs that will take effect Jan 1 concerning your engines and all of the other new diesel engines out there including what we sell, drop me a note off the site and I will gladly send you the information regarding what you should already know........................Tony
Seaboard Marine -- [email protected]
http://www.SBMar.com "Drop in for a visit"
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